Dr. Claudine Courey is the epitome of an entrepreneurial ECP. In the clinical setting, Claudine has set up (and continues to oversee) dry eye practices within three clinics. Outside the clinic, Dr. Claudine, the founder of the Eye Drop Shop, is one of the biggest e-commerce platforms in the eye care space. This episode is the first in a three-part series with Dr. Courey. We start the series with Claudine’s journey into e-commerce and entrepreneurship. In the following episodes, we will discuss the emergence (and importance) of clean beauty in eye care, and, of course, we will eventually dig deep into the dry eye. If eye care interests you, don’t miss this episode today.
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Entrepreneurship In Eye Care With Dr. Claudine Courey
This is a very different setup than the usual episodes because we are at Vision Expo East in New York City at the Javits Center. I’m so excited. It’s been an amazing couple of days. The energy is always so incredible here. Most importantly, I get to sit down with this amazing person in person, Dr. Claudine Courey.
Dr. Claudine Courey is the Founder of the Eye Drop Shop. She is a practicing optometrist, overseeing three dry eye specialty practices. She’s a mother of two beautiful children and a wonderful human being. I’m excited to finally sit down, chat, and go through stuff together. Maybe I’ll line this up. Claudine and I are going to be doing a series of three episodes. We’ll spread it out into three different topic discussions.
This topic is going to be a lot more focused on entrepreneurship, business, and that kind of stuff, and the struggles of working in the profession. In future episodes, we’ll talk a little bit more about dry eyes specifically and even more excitingly beauty and how that impacts eyes and dry eyes. That’s enough with the lead-up. Claudine, thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you so much for having me. I can’t believe I’m finally here. This is so exciting.
We’ve been trying to get this lined up for so long, but to be able to do it here in New York is so cool. I’m going to keep plugging and throwing these little plugs out. A big thanks to Thea for partnering with Claudine and me on these episodes so we can bring this content to you. We’ll be saying some nice things about them at some point along the way. Claudine, tell us about yourself. Where did you go to school? Do you work in Montreal?
Yes. I went to the University of Montreal, which is the only French-speaking optometry school in the world. I am very proud of that. It was an amazing school. I was part of the furniture there because I did my schooling and then residency and then Master’s all at the University of Montreal. Once I graduated, I still work in private practice. I also work doing dry eye because I love it. It’s something that I went into through the lens of scleral lenses. That’s how I got into dry eye. I started fitting scleral lenses on dry eye patients. That was the window.
Let’s talk about that. I’ve seen colleagues do that, and it seems pretty cool. We’re getting a topographer in our office. We’re going to start trying to do a bit more of that scleral for different things including dry eye. Tell me, how did you even start doing scleral for dry eye, and then how well does it work?
It works so well. It’s one of the last lines of treatment, but I’ve moved it up a little bit because it does help so many patients and it’s very straightforward to fit. It’s not like our cones, post-grafts, pellucid, or anything like that. It’s typically your spherical cornea. The patient’s eye is basking in eyedrops all day, so it does have a huge impact. That’s how it started. My friend was working on dry eye. I did my residency in scleral lenses. She was like, “Will you come to do this?” That’s how it all took off on that road.
That is so interesting. I’ve heard that it’s usually considered more of a last resort, more if somebody’s got significant dry eye or keratitis. You’re using it as an earlier stage. Where does it fit into your algorithm?
I bring it up sooner. I’m comfortable doing it because that’s what I trained in. Let’s say I see that the patient has significant SBK, also wears glasses, and wants a contact option. I won’t wait until the end. I’ll say, “What if we try this option?” I’ll explain the pros of it. If they jump on board, then I’ll end up doing a lot more of it a lot sooner.
This is supposed to be a bit of our conversation next time, but we’re delving a little bit into the dry eye because I didn’t know about the scleral thing. I find that intriguing. I have patients who are sitting in my chair. A lot of times, I’ve tried a lot of stuff and it’s not working that well. I’ll mention, “This is a thing that we could do. I don’t do it right now, so I’ll probably refer you off to somebody else who could do it.” Is it effective enough that I should be sending them out or trying to do it myself in my own office?
If you’re interested in it, then you could do it. It seems overwhelming but it’s not to fit the scleral lens especially. This goes also throughout dry eye. Your best resource is the representative of the company. I adore reps. I adore speaking with them. They’re professionals in their own field. A rep will come in and teach everything there is to know. It’s very doable if you’re interested in it. Otherwise, I’m a huge believer in referring to my colleagues. I do that all the time for other specialties. I find it fun. I like the way the profession is going in that way.
Get members of your team that you trust and are better than you in that field.
That inter-profession referral is becoming more common. We’re getting a bit more comfortable with it. One of the things that I talk about in one of my lectures is collaboration versus competition. We’ve had too much of a mindset or we tend to fall into that mindset a little bit of competitive. It’s like, “I don’t want to send you my patient because you might steal that patient.” As we start to realize that it’s all for the benefit of the patient, we start to get those patients coming back to us looking and feeling better. That’s an important aspect of practicing.
As far as the competition, this goes for clinics, eye drops, and everything, I feel like there are enough eyes to go around. There is enough of everything. I’m not that natural. If I do have a specialty that I love, and my friend has a specialty she loves and I don’t do it as much, I’ll refer to her. It will come back with another case. It’s fun.
It comes full circle, so think about the specialty that you offer them. Also, I found patients do appreciate that. You’re going beyond what they’re expecting when you’re like, “I’m going to refer you to a colleague who’s better at this than I am or has expertise in this area.” Assuming everything works out and the results come, it looks good on both of you. It reflects well on both doctors and in building that. We’re trying to build out a bit more of a referral network for ourselves in these different things.
We did take a bit of a tangent there on the scleral lenses. We’ll talk a bit more about that next time when we dive deep into dry eye. You specialize in that. You talk a lot about that. We are going to dive into the expertise of dry eye, the different modalities, and everything. For this episode, I want to talk a lot about entrepreneurship, business, and especially the Eye Drop Shop. It’s something that’s remarkable that you’ve built.
It has been growing and has been getting a lot more awareness. There are exciting partnerships coming up. Tell me about how it began.
Eye Drop Shop began because there was a need in the market for our patients to have access to the products they wanted. I prescribe everything that we do in the dry eye practice. I would prescribe the Thealoz Duo. The patient, even if they would get it the first time in your office after the first bottle, where are they going? Sometimes, they can’t get back to your clinic. They want it to be delivered. They want easy access. What happens? It’s either they go to the pharmacy and pick whatever, and then they end up back in your chair saying they’re not feeling better.
The whole point is that we select our treatments specifically for our patients. We want them to stay on it for a reason. It started with the whole Thea line, to be quite honest. I decided to put all of that. I said “What am I going to do? I can’t be considered a dry eye specialist when my patients do not have access to the best of the best.” I did it myself at the beginning and put it all online. It grew from there. Now we have over 150 products. We’re shipping across Canada. We have another one in the US. It’s pretty good.
That’s so cool. This is one of the questions I like to ask people. When somebody starts a company like this from scratch, you had an idea. Many people have ideas. What’s the step? If you can fill the gap between having the idea and setting it up online, do you know why you were so motivated? Was it you versus me or someone else who was going through the exact same thing? What was it in you that pushed you over the edge to take that first step?
It’s exactly what you said. It was, “Why not me?” That’s all. I was like, “Why not try? Why not give it a shot?” I knew the end goal was to help my patients. They were going to get something that they needed in an efficient way and in a way that they were going to be happy and more practical for their daily life. I figured, “Why not give it a shot?” That’s how I approach a lot of things. I’m like, “Why not?” That’s all. It was as simple as that. It wasn’t even deeper than that. It was, “This is a great idea and I’m going to try it out.”
You simplified it so much or you think about it so simplistically. We often overthink it. We think ourselves to death. We outthink ourselves from ideas like that. That’s a big one. It’s like, “I could put this online and sell it to my patients. I don’t know.” The next thing you know, it’s three months later.
You’re onto something else.
It could also be that somebody else has done it. What did it look like in the beginning? You had a few eye drops that you were selling. Would people go on your clinic website or the Eye Drop Shop website and then you were boxing things up yourself? What did you do?
I have done every single thing that we do in this company that’s a larger company with a whole team of people. I cannot do this alone, so I’m very grateful. I’ve done every single thing that’s involved in the company myself. It’s important. We always see this side. We always see the me here, but me rolling up my sleeves, boxing up the boxes at night after my kids have gone to bed, and then bringing them to the post office. That was me. There is also me being the one calling and following up on a package.
There’s a lot of work that goes into it. We do a disservice by only glorifying the fun parts and not showing that it takes a lot of work. That’s a big portion of it. It’s a lot of time. You can’t just get it. You have to put in the work. It looked like me doing all these things by myself. At a certain point, once you grow a little bit more, then you’re able to bring someone on board who hopefully knows more than you about the topic and let them run with it. You trust them to go and take on that area.
That’s another difficult step to take, which is to let go of the control a little bit and hand it off to somebody else. I want to go back to those early days again. You’re right. I don’t think we spent enough time talking about that and explaining or visualizing what that time felt like. What would you say were 1 or 2 significant challenges that you felt at that time? Were there days when you felt, “Why am I doing this? It’s not worth it.” What were the potential barriers that you were overcoming at that time?
I’m going to be honest. Business is in my family’s blood. It was in my blood from the beginning. Every time, I get energized by any kind of business endeavor. Anything that involves a challenge or a problem, I find that fun to have to resolve it. You have doubts about yourself in life. In the business, I always kept focusing on why we were doing this and the fact that we were getting positive feedback from my patients. The reviews and everything like that were coming back so grateful. We were shipping to Northern Canada where people had no access. We were doing all kinds of things. That’s what kept me always motivated to keep going. It was always fun, and it still continues to be fun.
That’s amazing. That’s incredible that you’re able to help people in places like that where they have such limited access. It’s one thing to be like, “My patients who live around my area. That’s fine,” but for somebody out there who’s needing it and doesn’t have access to it, that’s cool. I did an eCommerce lecture. I gave one, and I did that here. I tell people that you can’t just open up shop and expect people to come and buy stuff from you. You can’t even do that in the physical world anymore, let alone the digital world. How did you bring people in in the first place to start bringing traffic to your website?
In the first place, it was my patients. It was then word of mouth. You started seeing orders coming a little bit from the surrounding areas where we practiced that weren’t my patients. It was the patient’s cousin, the patient’s mom, or whatever. Following that, once we grow, we are able to bring specialists on board who knows more than me and I let them run. That’s my style.
When somebody works in our team and they know what they’re doing, then they get to go and do what they know. We did bring on a specialist who was able to work on those ads and things like that. You then got to do Instagram, TikTok, and all those things that maybe are not in your comfort zone. At least it wasn’t mine. You know that the purpose you’re doing is to get the message out to patients so that the patients can get treated and they can feel better. You do that.
That’s amazing. That’s such a great starting point. It started with your patients and it grew from there. That’s the same point that I make in the lecture. Right out the gate, we’re not trying to necessarily reach someone across the country. We should start by extending our services to our current patient base. We got an email bank of our database of patient emails. Let them know you have this service available. Once you get those people coming through, you can start to grow it. It’s amazing to see that that’s what you did and it’s worked that well.
I run a completely eCommerce business, but I believe that it’s not just eCommerce. It has to be in the clinic as well. These two things have to mesh together so that this is the cycle of the patient. If you think of the patient, they see you. You prescribe your drop and the patient will purchase it from you. You get those touchpoints during the year because you have this online platform to allow them to engage with you. Your patients want to engage with you during the year. They want to know from you. Let’s make it easy for them.
Your patients want to engage with you. Make it easy for them.
Let’s talk about TikTok. I’m taking people along your Eye Drop Shop journey. We did the beginning when you were boxing things up. You had your patients coming and buying. It’s grown, and then you had to do your own marketing to grow it, which was Instagram and TikTok. On a previous episode of my show not too long ago, I was talking to Carly Rose who has a massive TikTok channel. She’s a wonderful person. She was saying it’s gamifiable.
Sometimes, they change the rules, but if you understand, for the most part, what it is that TikTok wants, then you’ll show up on the algorithm more. You came to mind. I was like, “Do you know Claudine? Claudine started her TikTok channel and she’s got 20,000 followers.” Consistently, you’re putting up content that people want to see. Some videos get 10 likes, but others get 500 likes or thousands of likes. It’s so cool that you’ve stuck with it so consistently. Tell me about that experience.
That was an experience. It continues to be an experience because I’m on TikTok. I do things and always keep the end goal in mind. That’s how I operate. Am I sometimes feeling silly or whatever? Sure. If you watch the TikToks, you’ll know what I mean. When I read the comments and they’re saying, “Thank you. I went to go to get my eyes checked. I was scared about this and this helped me,” then I’m like, “It’s worth it.” For the amount of me being ridiculous versus if I could help one person, then it’s worth it to me.
That’s very true. I’m not a big TikTok person. I do have a couple of videos that did do well on TikTok. I have pretty much not produced anything new on TikTok. I was like, “I had a couple of big ones.” What’s your best video on TikTok? What’s your best engagement?
I’ve had a couple. One is probably the eye care, taking pressure kind of thing. I did one on eyelid twitch. Different ones blow up. You never know.
You stick with it and it’s helped you grow the channel.
It’s education, in my opinion, despite the funniness of it. Behind every TikTok, there’s a message that I’m putting out there. It is that your eyes are so important. Go see your eye doctor. This is something that you should be doing every year. It’s getting that message out and bringing people back to their doctor’s office if they hadn’t thought about it.
You’re educating. You got a call to action to go in and get your eyes checked. Have you gotten patients that you’ve seen in person? As far as you can track it, have you gotten sales on Eye Drop Shop through social media?
Patients, yes. They’ll find me on TikTok and then book an exam. It’s so much fun. They’re so nice. It’s great to have patients that way. In Canada, we can’t link anything necessarily too opposed. It would be hard to track, but I’m sure there’s more traffic on the site.
One of your favorite posts is the one you did with your sister. That was the post where everybody found out that you have a sister.
She’s the best. She’s the most incredible human being.
She is also an optometrist. Are you twins?
You look alike.
Thank you. I appreciate it. She’s nine years younger than me. I always say it’s cool when I look like a twin, but in a couple of years, I’ll look much older and it will not be cool for me.
I’d like to meet her if we get a chance.
We’re going to, for sure, hook it up. She’s incredible. She does dry eye and scleral lenses, too. We did the whole same thing. She’s my bestie.
She’s nine years younger than you. That’s crazy, and she’s an optometrist. I didn’t know you’d been practicing that long. That’s amazing. Let’s go back to the topic here with Eye Drop Shop. The core of the discussion is entrepreneurship. Especially within the profession, it’s exciting that there’s a lot of entrepreneurial spirit. I feel like over the last few years or so, I’ve been seeing it a lot more.
I’d love for you to share your message if there are entrepreneurs out there who are starting out with what you want them to learn and what you want them to know from your journey. Before we get there, Eye Drop Shop is growing partnerships. There are exciting things going on. Tell me about that. There are some cool stuff going on.
We constantly look for new ways to innovate, to help patients, and also to work with colleagues. The newest partnership, which I’m so excited about, is with a company called Otto. It is an incredible company. Have you heard of them?
I have. Is it Otto Optics?
Yeah, exactly. This partnership will allow any clinic to have its own Eye Drop Shop. The website will look like the clinic. They could set their own pricing. They could have their patients order contacts in all 150 drops. The clinic has no risk, no stocking, no nothing. It’s Eye Drop Shop slightly in the background doing all the dirty work for the clinic. They’re doing the picking, packing, shipping, and customer service. We’re so excited about that. That will change the game because it makes it like a turnkey solution for every optometrist to provide that care and what their patients want.
The patient gets it at their optometrist. Now, they go directly to the optometrist’s website, not Eye Drop Shop or anyone else’s. When I think about it, what would I want as an OD? I want my patients to come back to me thinking of my brand. That’s what we did. We heard that feedback, and then we said, “Let’s go.” We and Otto are making it happen.
That’s amazing. That’s incredible. Congratulations.
That’s going to be huge. I’m going to be looking into that in the near future. Is that only in Canada or is that in the States?
It is all across North America. It is in Canada and the US. We have two separate companies. The US version of Eye Drop Shop contains only products that are FDA approved. The Canadian is only Health Canada. Everything is very clear. The Otto and Eye Drop Shop partnership can happen in Canada and the US. It’s open to all ODs. It makes it simple, and that’s all I want in my life. I’m like, “Can you make this easy for me?”
I don’t know if it’s maybe business people in general, but optometrists are like that very much. We’re like, “Give me the easiest press-a-button-and-it-works situation.”
Also, we’re doing other extremely important things. We’re looking at retinal health. We’re taking care of our patients. We don’t want our tech who is pre-testing or doing anything in contact lens teach to be like, “I’m sorry. Hold on one second. I got to go pack this box. I have to also call Canada Post. We’re out of this inventory. I have to order.” There’s a whole backend scenario that’s difficult. We take that out of the way. You could say we have an online store now.
Congratulations. How do we do that? How do we start that process if somebody wants to bring Eye Drop Shop onto their website?
If they want a website that looks completely like their own and they have contact lenses and Eye Drop Shop embedded in it, then it would be to open an account with Otto. That will allow them to get the whole slew of things.
Otto does contact lens sales and stuff like that.
They do contact lenses and create the website. They have reminders for your patients. If your patient’s out of contacts or drops, Otto will send a reminder. It’s these little touchpoints during the year that keep your patient and your clinic top of mind. If they need whatever else or if they need sunglasses, they’re not going to go wherever. They’ll be like, “I’m going to go back to my OD and get it.”
That’s because we’re in contact. One of the biggest things with us is we’re always like, “How often does the average patient come back?” It’s twenty-something months. For their contact lens, it’s seventeen months or something like that. Now, we have the chance to be touching points every few months like, “You bought drops a little while ago. You must be out by now. Would you like some more? Here’s a link to buy more.” The same goes for the contacts. You’re in their text messages, emails, and everything like that way more frequently. It’s top of mind. That’s amazing.
How nice is that to also not have to think about it? We know when you’re going to be out. You have to press a button and then it’ll show up at your door. You move on and do whatever you were doing.
It’s easy. As far as I know, Otto does integrate with the EMR to some degree. Is that right?
I have to check the specifics on EMR.
That’s okay. That’s a question for Alex. I’ll talk to Alex.
I’ll bring Alex on. You can ask the question.
That would be awesome.
What else with Eye Drop Shop is exciting that you want to celebrate or share with us? Is there anything else going on or that has happened already perhaps that we should know about?
I forgot to mention though with the Otto and Eye Drop Shop, the clinic gets to set whatever profit they want to make. That’s a huge portion. It’s extremely huge. They can decide whatever margins they want. They could set their price on all their drops. They would make, if we’re talking business-wise, the same as if they did it in-clinic on their own without having to do it.
It is important. We’ve had that conversation before as we’ve thought about bringing on different eCommerce options. In the past, there were options where we sell a drop for $30 and on the eCommerce platform, it is $28. We’re like, “What are our patients going to think? They’re not going to want to buy from us in-store if they see online is cheaper. They’re going to feel like we’re trying to gouge them or something.” It’s nice that there’s consistency across the board. Some people want to sell it for more, and some for less or whatever the case may be.
That’s fine. At least it matches your in-clinic price so that everything is cohesive. That’s what I wanted to make sure that I mentioned because I had forgotten to mention that.
That’s very important. What about this entrepreneurial journey then? If you could distill it down to a couple of key things that you’ve learned from setting up the website, boxing things up, and taking into the post office to bringing somebody on, having multiple team members, creating these partnerships, and all this way that you’ve come, what are the first couple of things that come top of mind?
The most important thing is the team members and having members of your team that you trust and that are better than you in that field. I am not the type of person that wants to do it all. I feel like there’s a purpose for that person to be part of our team and our company. They should use their knowledge and run with it because it’s an asset to our company.
That’s a big one to not want to do it all yourself and grind until 6:00 in the morning. Hire well. Trust them to do their job correctly and they will. They will do tenfold as opposed to micromanaging people. That’s one. Another would be to prioritize what you want to do. You could do 100 things.
I’m a little ADD in that thing. I’m like, “This is a new thing. I want to try that now.”
Prioritize and go for it. It is also knowing that if you’re in it or you’ve got the grit to do it that it involves hard work. I don’t think we should continue saying it’s glamorous all the time. It’s to know that you’re going to have to work hard. We’re up from 5:00 in the morning with the kids until dinnertime. I’ll take a little break, and then I’m working from 8:00 to 11:00 at night. It’s constant, but I’m doing things that energize me. The goal is that you find something you want to do that gives you that feeling, that spark that you don’t feel tired even though it’s 10:00 at night.
I have that feeling. I love doing this. I get tired from traveling and everything at the conference. I know that feeling.
You know when you’ve found what you love. You feel it. You have an energy you can’t associate with anything. If you have that, you’ll have the energy to do it and to work hard. It takes hard work.
Before we get closer to wrapping up, you talked about bringing team members and staff on. Where in that journey did you determine you had enough cashflow and volume? Was there an obvious turning point for you or was it something you thought about for a long time?
No. It always happened in the sense that we grew to a certain point where we could. In the beginning, you can’t. It’s a startup. You must do it all yourself, depending if you take on investors or not. We hadn’t, so we did it all ourselves. As it grew, you learn as you go, “I would need help in this area.” The truth is it found me. It’s so weird and annoying of an answer. When I needed it, these different people came into our surroundings. It worked out that way. If you’re open to it and you’re looking, it flows.
You put out the energy. You are looking for the cues. Perhaps you’re more intuitive than me. Sometimes, it’s a little harder to see. We can’t take anything away from that. Some people have a knack for these things. That’s great if that’s the case for you. It’s nice to see that it’s grown that way. Where can people find you on TikTok, Instagram, or wherever? Where can people find you? Where can they find more out about Eye Drop Shop and all these kinds of things?
For Eye Drop Shop, it’s EyeDropShop.ca in Canada and EyeDropShop.com in the US. If an OD is interested in having their own link, we are going to talk about this next time. They could have their own link to the beauty side of the website. Some ODs already have a website. That’s another option. They could reach out to me. I speak to all ODs myself. I find it so much fun. I love connecting and I enjoy it. They could write me personally at my personal email, which I could give out gladly. We could chat. I could help with everyone out.
At the end of every episode, I like to ask two questions. You tune in to the show, so you know what I do. There are two questions I ask everybody at the end of the episode. Number one is if we could hop in a time machine and go back to a point in your life where you were struggling that was a difficult time, you’re welcome to share that if you’re comfortable sharing that time. More importantly, what advice would you give to young Claudine at that time?
Let’s keep it to eyes. I feel like I studied day in and day out. Everyone was doing everything and I did nothing at that point. I had committed to becoming the best that I could be in school and stuff. If there are students who feel that pain who might be reading, it’s so worth it. You always got to sacrifice at some point in time. It’s either pay now or pay later.
The little amount of time that you sacrifice will pay off in the future. This is the most beautiful profession. I’m so grateful and blessed to be part of it. You could do so many things with it. It’s incredible. Everything’s a phase. The good is good and the not-so-good is not-so-good. Everything passes, so keep going. It will be okay.
The little time you sacrifice will pay off in the future.
You said pay now or pay later. It reminded me of a quote I heard. It was, “If you think the cost of hard work is high, wait until you get the bill for regret.” That was a pretty powerful one. That one stuck with me. The last question I like to ask is with everything that you’ve accomplished so far, how much of it is due to luck, and how much is due to hard work?
It would be a bit of both 100%. I heard something that struck me. It was Kerry Washington. She was saying that if you want to catch the bus, you’ve got to run fast and pray hard. If you run fast and don’t pray, it could have not been your bus. If you pray and don’t run, you’re not catching the bus. If you run and pray and don’t catch a bus, that wasn’t your bus. I feel like there’s a mix of hard work, being at the right place at the right time, and hopefully putting out good vibes and being nice.
I have a couple of kids. I hope that they see this in the future. I hope to achieve success and do so by being nice the whole way. This concept of you have to be this and not to be good in business, I want to prove it completely wrong. A little bit of luck, a lot of hard work, and the fusion, I hope that’s what’s going to take me to keep going higher.
You have been putting up amazingly good vibes. You have been genuinely and authentically a nice person the whole way. It’s paying off, and I hope it does continue to. Thank you. I’m going to keep running for the bus and praying as well. I’m going to keep doing that.
That’s it. It’s a little bit of both.
Thank you so much. I appreciate it. This is amazing. I can’t wait for the next one. Let’s quickly tease that one. We’re going to talk about what in the next episode?
It is all things clean beauty. Everything you want to know in your practice to prescribe and recommend products that are going to stop hurting your patient’s eyes, we’re going to break it down and make it easy. We’ll go through different eye doctor-created products and make them so that it’s a, “1, 2, and 3. This is what you’ve got to do.”
I love it. I’d love to talk about these things to my patients, but I’m not always that comfortable talking about makeup and stuff like that as important as it is. Claudine’s going to give us, those of us who are not so comfortable talking about these things, tips on how to bring it up and how to have these conversations with our patients. I’m excited. That’s going to be very different from any conversation I’ve had on the show before, so I’m looking forward to that. Thank you again. It has been amazing.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, everybody, who is tuning in on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you are. Thanks for tuning in to the show, Canada’s number one optometry show. Thank you. We’ll see you in the next episode.